Council Retreat 11/15/2014 (Part 2) Marina

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a Ford voting facility Event Center I mean Gathering plays the first destination
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Cody asked me to kick off the conversation with everybody kind of uh reminder
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reminding uh your skin reviewing what we’ve discussed in the specifically in that last couple of presentation and
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today we talked about how George reckons of degrees uh over the last five years and those problems become more variable
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we’ve got to talk about some some of the expenses that have increased significantly mostly at that service or
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the DNR release and how it’s resolved the community function no longer support the general fund and uh the reason the
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Green Castle plan is Marina Capital Improvement plan we also talked about some long-range problems in the uh in
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that presentation and the one before remember the 2007 master plan uh part of
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that Paul was built a little extensive financial model the projection down over
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the 20-year life of those bonds and that in that land mortgage revenue is based
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mortgage revenue on a three percent growth you know three percent program data will and over the last five six
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europeans.net and know about interest and compounding and and
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time and in this case that revenue is just gone forever we’re
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not going to get that back so that’s recalibrated that whole growth trajectory and it set us up for some
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real problems for the future specifically about 20 20 25 period when we’re going to have some difficulties
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with being able to fund enough of the or come up with enough funds for All The
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Replacements that are going to be needed to be uh
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[Music] uh some of my tenants always are take me to task a little bit over this
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presentation because they think I’ve been a too bleak a picture of uh what’s going on with the especially
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recreational Community two months ago I just started seeing
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three months ago when the season started I was very concerned about revenues of salmon fishing and whole host of issues
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that uh but we had a better season to expect we had a whole month and a half but we didn’t really count on good
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weather just about all of our revenue streams were up a little bit or meeting the expectation or slightly exceeding
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expectations just talked to our school yard manager yesterday said his revenues at the boat yard are up 30 percent over
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last year so people are returning to voting and
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we get to see ourselves you know cared like everybody else all the other businesses you know we can see ourselves
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climbing out of the recession uh you know I’m gonna look it’s still a
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little unclear what’s going to happen in another decade and a half we have you know who’s going to be in voting and
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what recreational voting is going to look like but but for the immediate future I’m talking the next five to ten
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years and if we can we can get the expenses under control and we can address some of these long-term
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liabilities the marina will remain a possible business
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my mind about that to that end uh at that meeting on the 25th we talked
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about several recommendations
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in all of those was what is the ring of purpose [Music] 3:43
funds uh is it may priority supporting the general fund
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or do we or do we continue with the uh the current business model and include
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some supportive support of some of the other Council employers like promoting the city uh Our Guest mortgage program
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Northern City uh hopefully helping some of our downtown businesses supporting
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special events supporting Public Access you know non-voting public assets for this
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country so again we at this meeting is
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our main focus to maximum net revenue or should we continue with the business
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model we have now and uh strong with this a little bit because Tony and I talked about it and you know I’m sitting
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here today it’s a little hard to tell you know what’s the difference what you know you know hey we want it all Maximum
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rather than all this stuff but I think if we pursued a mindset if we just
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maximizing our net revenue on the Marine before you know you get down the road five years that’s going to be quite a
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bit different than the business the path we’re on now and we’re talking about uh development commercial development on
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this board so it plays into how intensively uh you do that and now that how this area we’re going to go to that
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so a whole host of questions and that’s really what we would like to discuss today right we are the we stay on the
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path that we’re on or if you change our course to focus more intensively on maximizing the threat oh
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I’d love to hear that one what’s that I’d love to start let me respond to that one yeah please go ahead and wait
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um we’ve been all it’s always been fascinating over the years to watch the
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marina and it’s about Patty I can recall around too long ago I think
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most people you’ll remember it we got a slingwise [Music] 5:57
I remember receiving emails from people that would say that we in the city or
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city council had a responsibility which one to their needs
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um that one I always found especially because in the minds of a lot of people
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don’t do believe that but we’re there to service their needs
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I I I’ve gotten away from that kind of thinking to me and I hinted on this
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earlier the marina should be approached as the business of any other business
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if it isn’t making money that we need to get rid of whatever element is there it
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is causing sweating the only way if it doesn’t produce Revenue
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then we don’t need it we should concentrate only on those things that we
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can reasonably assume will keep us in blacking and as much as possible
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uh beyond that I don’t think we have any obligation for anyone at all
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locally or regionally uh continue to provide something that is only going to
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be an expense to us and if we take that approach I think we
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can possibly see a marina being a little more viable a lot more viable in the future
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it currently is it sounded mean and harsh but it’s a
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reality and that’s that’s the only way business ever succeeds
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yeah I think people might have gotten the idea that the marina
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should provide some public service because it’s owned by a public entity when the marina was first proposed by a
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developers of City United permit and then build it themselves so there must
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be some public purpose for it it’s a couple of phones that the city is a
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public entity but I agree it would be nice if they could provide those services and still
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[Music] 8:26
I’ll tell you where I’m coming from the Marine is a business I agree with Bob
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his first and foremost thing is it needs to succeed as a business it needs to be in the black not in the red
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to that degree I mean the city has been transferring essentially what amounted
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to the profits when the marina was profitable um you know to the general fund help
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fill a back hole the hole that was created by the passengers of 695 and the elimination of our second leading source
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of Revenue which was the sales tax Equalization funds and I know that apparently part of my ever
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been on accounts apparently there have been times where money was also transferred out for City operations
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prior to that um the Marina has to be on a Sam Financial
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footing in terms of its own operation and the services it provides which speaks to
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um what the role or the purpose of the Marine is Joe which is what your question is and first and foremost it
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has to be a marine okay I mean that’s its number one priority
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uh to the degree I think we we benefited from the marina in the fact that it’s
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supported city services um above and beyond the costs that it
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bears from direct use of finance department illegal and the rest of it
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but those that the transfer or the amount that’s paid into the
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general fund of the city needs to be reduced to that minimum and
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um and it needs to happen sooner rather a little later I don’t think it’s a one-year thing which is why I think
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budgetary it might be a two-year thing to get to that point in time
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I think also to that extent it speaks to some of the prioritization in terms of
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the Capital Improvements that need to happen for example
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it would help bring in additional revenues should be moved up later because there’s two pieces
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reducing the costs I think that got mentioned in terms of trying to get our legislators to reduce the leases by
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passing legislation down there to treat us the same as harbors and courts are treated across the police raids and
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providing access to the jetty working cooperate cooperatively with the
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Des Moines Yacht Club to get people over to the jetty to be able to take advantage of that as well so that
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that’ll help reduce the cost of those uh of the leases because of the public
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access um [Music] 11:19
if yanking did the
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dock and being able to open up c and e
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to larger vessels is going to bring in Revenue to me that makes sense and
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something to do sooner rather than later it’s far less costly than doing the bulkhead work that needs to be done in
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the work parking lot get something with a provide Revenue coming back to the city
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it’s something that from the standpoint of being able to pay for it from
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existing revenue streams if it meant tying up our real estate excise tax for
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let’s say a 10 or 15-year period of time it’s probably something that could be done
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in relatively short or the
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what I would want is an estimation of how much additional Revenue you can come or how much revenue could come in from
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being able to list in larger boats on an expanded e doc busted CDOC
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availability there with an eye toward having that money go into the
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maintenance and repair account so they’re for a period of time say five years or six years there was a dedicated
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funding source to go in that so we start accumulating the money there and then figure out or do the things that we need
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to do to make sure that from an operational standpoint that we’re getting to balance or to back in the
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black um without that money so that after a period of time whether it’s five years
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six years whatever number you come up with then you’ve got an ongoing Revenue spend to add to your operations on an
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ongoing basis which will put us in a better footing for some of the larger more expensive longer term uh Capital
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Improvements that we have to make um
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we can’t divorce the fact that it is our largest open public space in terms of being able
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to hold events in the city and so that’s not going to go away
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how those services are supported though whether that’s a function relative to
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Parks and Rec whether it’s something that the Marine is expected to handle you
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know I don’t know what the answer to that is I’m curious to hear what my telecast members have to think about that
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but uh I think first and foremost it’s got to be run as as a business and not as a
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contributing source of Revenue to the you know City’s General
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I think over time you’ll see things occur that will contribute to that
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you know you’ve got some programmatic suggestions in terms of what do you do
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with the guest mortgage you know do you take some of that and make it permanent
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orange and I don’t know what the answers to those
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are because I think there’s an advantage to the city of bringing people in from all
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over the place in terms of being able to take advantage our businesses benefit from that and I just not just in the
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marina but it brings people to town and in the same way the farmer’s market does you know it gives gives people an eye
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toward what our city is about um so yeah those those are my thoughts and
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Jeremy I have to agree with him and uh
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it’s got to be run as a business um I see the guest mortgage thing
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um I think it’s going to be more viable in the future than it is today
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um it brings people to town yes the services that we’re able to provide
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that any other city with a Marina has close to the water are Givenchy on a
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weekly basis and hopefully we’re on the uphill swing as opposed to on the Dancehall switch
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um but I see that as a revenue stream in the future I agree with bringing bigger
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boats in if that’s going to be if that’s going to generate more revenue
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and I said it shortly after I got on the council that transferred to the
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general fund we’ve got to do the lower and just pay for the services
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that are
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whether that’s in one year it’s not going to happen in one year or two years but it needs to happen that’s
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okay on the uh the extensis that the marina
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uses in our for overhead is with the city I’m not sure how much that is but even that we
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get the city gets services like when we have a the farmer’s market down there
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that’s a Plus for the city that we’re paying nothing for so I mean ideally
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them those would probably balance out that whatever overhead Association of the
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city that the city got from using the marina I’m not trying to understand it because
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the farmers market pays some sort of address to the marina correct about 300 more yeah yeah so the Marina
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has from the least of its Upland you know in the same way that CSR pays or
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costs
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I mean some of patrice’s folks everything that we do the equipment that
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we provide the restroom facility that they get to use Etc et cetera what they are paying did not cover those costs but
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they also contribute to the city more than just bringing in thousands of people to it as well and so there’s
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there’s trade-offs I get that too and I’m gonna I’m gonna be a little bit a
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little bit of a better exactly what I’m going to be here but I’m going to say these things anyway so the farmers
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market brings 4 000 people every Saturday to the city if every one of those people spends ten
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dollars of a type of spending it’s a sitting at
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sales tax that’s 10 cents and so that’s forty dollars of
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sales tax we just got from 4 000 people spending ten dollars in sales tax eligible expenses most of the people
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that are showing up at the farmers market are buying stuff that is not subject to sales tax yes we have the
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craft vendors and other things but all the food is not and then if they go to the restaurants which I know they do 40
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minute you said forty thousand dollars in sales that’s four hundred dollars to say right about forty dollars okay it’s
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400. okay but that means that they all have to spend 10 bucks worth of stuff and a lot
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of them don’t uh there is that nice uh extra traffic for the businesses in
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town I think that’s a good thing because it keeps them alive and we can certainly do an analysis of
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how much money you really think the farmer’s market is resulting in is from a pure Financial basis but from a cost
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to the city basis they’re not covering their costs directly just to what they’re getting from us
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you know I do agree that it has to run as a business and we need to find
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actually this discussion will help us when we look at whatever possible development agreements
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we set up with good food and so forth because I’m not sure that based on what I’m hearing today that those at least
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the early ideas are necessarily as valid as they were when they were worshiped on the table
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but I also think it is I mean one of the things about living in Des Moines is that we have a Marine in a town
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and we have Waterfront and redundant so to some degree although they have to be considered
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I understand the business aspect of it you it’s also a Community Asset
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and to so I’m not saying that does that mean you can’t treat it as a business but I think that you have to be mindful
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of its contribution to the community and you have to see it and be able to deal
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with things in that life which I’m not when you go pure business
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um it’s going to be about revenues minus expenses but you know
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what are the profits from the business go they either go into the Redevelopment of the business or the benefit of its
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customers or they end up in the city coffers so that’s why I’m saying we have to be a
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little bit careful when we look at things just from a business stem
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well every business like has its loss metered so you know and this could very
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well be one for the Marine if you’re going to look at it from standpoint of the business you know it attracts people
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in there but you’re not going to make any money you know a lot of the parking stores and what have you cash something like that
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they call it a lost leader so you know I think this is one of those things that
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when you look at Farmers Market here is a great deal of benefit to coming out of it uh as far as Goodwill and what have
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you that doesn’t necessarily benefit the city profitably you know like should it be
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done away with probably not because it’s one of those things that you know like I said it’s kind of like a business
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philosophy and please don’t get me wrong what I’m trying to do is
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is is generate this exact kind of discussion that there are there’s
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different reasons different benefits some of them quantifiable some of them not of what
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happens on the marina floor and in one breath you say it’s a business and it needs to be treated like
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a business well if this was a business we would be charging the farmer’s market
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in order to cover the direct cost to the Marine because all those other sales tax type dollars and things that I talked
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about those go to the general fund they don’t go back to the rent but the question about these direct
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costs okay you’re talking about staff time okay you’re talking about that’s
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percentage of electricity or whatever that might get used for the four hours a
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month or four hours a week you know those are relatively small the marina in and of itself should be
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making money even if there wasn’t one stinking event that’s held in the Marine
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so to me the use of the marina and an appropriately charging for the use of
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those public facilities in the same way that we would look at it for the beach park or field house or anything else we
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need to look at those and think of that into consideration and I know that for non-profits the municipal facilities
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Community is taking a look at that and is making a recommendation in regard to that and I think the same kind of a
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policy should apply but that doesn’t get to the bottom line
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as to how the marina itself offerings and and what needs to be done to make sure
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that that in and of itself as a business entity is profitable and that’s why I see I see a distinction
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if if tying up staff time supporting the farmers market and these events is
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substantial enough that there’s things that aren’t getting done then that’s of a cost to the city if
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it’s if on the other hand it’s not the tracking from our ability to get things done and that the real
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issue is capital investment and which I suspect most of it is although we’re
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having to do more maintenance because we’re not we haven’t been able to make the capital Investments that we use when
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we want to um then we have that that’s a short-term
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thing it’s not a long-term thing so I I guess I I struggle with that being an
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impact on how the marina whether the marina makes money or not to me that’s
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that’s a different calculus it’s not a it’s a it’s an ancillary or tangential
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thing it’s not something that directly impacts the marina the Marine is not out any uh opportunity cost for something
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happening on in the north parking lot regardless of what it is whether it’s the strong man competition or whatever
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we’re not missing any Revenue opportunities by by those things being
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so that’s what I’m getting at is I’m talking about on our ongoing basis since
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it’s the 10 marina tenants and the Upland tenants who are actually paying to make the marina you know
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pencil out that’s the that’s the calculus we need to figure out the other is to me that’s
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the tangential that’s the that’s the second one and I think that there is value to
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certain things that create a good wealth and I think the farmers market is
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I know exactly why you did it you’re not you’re playing a little bit of Double Down okay uh but there is a value to
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Goodwill and I see that uh and the farmer’s market is a good example of that what I’m referring to I
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think Dave is getting the same message about is that when I hear things like a Harbor
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Master says to me the uh look at the cost of guest mortgage
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versus a transition into uh a DOT that would have bigger boats in
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the gifts okay I can recall long ago you and I and Joey Jewell and a few other people got really excited about bringing
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in those um boats from different clubs and what happened to the city I mean we were
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jumping up and down and Joe and I had this conversation two weeks ago okay absolutely we were very happy and I
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remember leaving those meetings with them boy are we on the right path now I enjoyed one out there who is uh Credit
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in an outstanding job uh recruiting those people and getting them into the City and having all kinds of events and
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what have you thought that was a plan you know that was the end of our problems it wasn’t it was so now we have a
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hardware manager in front of us going maybe we should re-evaluate this maybe it would be more cost efficient to have
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these converted into docs that will pay on an ongoing basis year-round at a much higher rate than we
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could ever get from guest mortgage that’s what I’m talking about those are the things that we should be
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looking at as far as the business end of it is concerned not necessarily a farmer’s market because again I just say
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that’s nothing but Goodwill and what value you place on Goodwill yeah we don’t because you can’t but
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that’s that’s the perfect example of what we should be thinking about
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his head up for a while huh oh sure go ahead Jeanette
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um I think the uh putting in the for the larger boats like
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in the short term uh because of the revenue but if we are working still with
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the developer to put this Marina floor we’re going to need
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customers for those businesses and the guest mortgage would be a place to get some of those customers
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so like I’m really worried we we might benefit a little while in the short term
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but how do we how do we get to the point where we know the answer to these questions so we do have analysis on it
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jump go ahead just a little bit more information for the discussion on them the farmer’s market I agree with
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everything that’s been said I think what what Tony and I talk about is is when you when you talk about
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in this place in the commercial development also can you talk about all of our assets we have to think about
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what is the true cost the total cost of owning and operating the facility yeah
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it’s a big big Capital compliment to that and that’s what we’re ignoring now we haven’t ignored the candidates in
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that because you go back even into the early 2000s when we did that original master plan remember in our rate
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structure there was an actual Capital compound we added to their rates and we basically went to that same analysis in
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the 2007 uh rate uh increase which was the largest in the history of our Marina
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and again the whole justification was Capital so that’s when we talk about the
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Uplands I think that’s what we’re trying to say also is that how do you get a return on the rental that’s of that
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those other areas that addresses the capital part of it
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um I just want to go back to public amenities and how difficult this whole thing is and you talk about that let’s
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get let’s talk about the Boardwalk every condo and the public fishing boat those are two
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of the most well-used public facilities in South King County right there we have
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no obligation to keep that public fishing period we could tear it down tomorrow it is a pain in the rear
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to clean that thing every day but if you take a look and again here’s
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the Dilemma if you take a look at everything about Des Moines adapter fishing pier is in it every
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beautiful picture that’s on our website every every Everything a thousand Millions have other fishing well the
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same thing’s happening if we’re done people have now associated with that
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porn pocket thousands of people use that every year and how do you create a
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revenue stream that’s going to support those those other community that’s why I keep banging that parking problem
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uh and then just a little bit of information on the concrete we do we did do that analysis uh several
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you know as part of our Capital plan several years ago uh reconfiguring uh d e and f docs is
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basically based on current rates and current occupancies would be Revenue
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neutral maybe in the worst case slightly negative Revenue in those first years but as it filled up what it gives you
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basically is what we don’t have now with those uh those low those small slips the same kind of pricing car I mean we just
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keep reducing the brace till we fill them up we go to the we reconfigure and get the bigger slips then we go back to
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where we can come back and and increase those rates at least by the CPI so
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but thank you I bow to you okay because you touched upon something that I was
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going to wait until later on to discuss because it just gets so many people pissed off at me and I had another eight
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years old but uh how much time Melissa did your committee spend uh looking at
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paid parking four months worth of Municipal facility meetings not to mention a Summer full of Counting Cars
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um Revenue analysis based on it yeah a lot of time okay and the recommendation
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came back is look what we could do you know I thought that all of a sudden
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we had a joey Jewel going again that my God out of this committee comes
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to the savior of what it’s going to take to keep you know of Marina Bible not a savior and at least a little life
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support yeah they want to catch a lot of people from drowning right okay granted not a
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Titanic thing but um but it went nowhere it is like a diving for
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my very eyes and I I gotta encourage people here to
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take that dust it off and take a very serious look at this because this is what I’ve been saying earlier it may not
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be a popular thing to do it may get some people really pissed off but if you’re
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going to run the marina and you’ve got a revenue Source that’s there and how many
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marinas out there are actually charging for these kind of things we’re not because we’re buckling into some
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pressure from some people that believe that they have some right uh
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to these benefits that they’ve been receiving all these years they don’t
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and we need to look seriously at this pay parking very very seriously and bring it back
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and then an enactment make it happen Melissa and then Jeanette so
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um the huge increase in the DNR the DNR on these increased substantially not that
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long ago right and so we’ve we’ve played with the idea of you know getting access to the jetty and
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making it a public and so we can have guesses on revenue streams and how the revenue will come in
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but we can control expenses and that to me is a very controllable expense that we’ve got a plan and place that we can
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reduce a huge percentage of the money going out I mean I I look at that we’ve not really
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spent enough time getting into that aspect of the short answer the short answer to that is that
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staff has attempted to set up meetings with the yacht club in order to have that conversation and depending upon who
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you talked to at the Yacht Club they get up to the 11th hour and when the meetings get canceled or whatever so
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what’s going to happen Tony and I actually had this conversation what’s going to happen this next time is that I
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and or Matt are going to go with staff to sit down and talk with them and put them in a political discussion as a part
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of it to say look we need to have this conversation in order to help facilitate are the the supplement a carrot and a
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stick I mean if what I mean aren’t they don’t they have access to a city launch
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and they pay almost nothing to you and I will say I have I have a few carrots to throw at them I can’t get an opportunity
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to even do that well I mean of course well that’s disappointing
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because they’re we met their Commodore and he said he was very open to the idea of how to work with this audience is
34:46
that Mr masero I don’t recall I spoke to him several times and I told him but very clearly here’s what I can offer you
34:54
here we can talk about reducing the rates we can talk about maybe launching on your ramp and sharing some of those
35:01
um those dollars for you we can talk about a lot of things that would be to your advantage this isn’t this isn’t a
35:06
substantive issue at this point is communication issue and and just overcoming that barrier and I just had
35:13
this conversational visit yesterday or two days ago yeah so that you know it’s
35:18
it’s going to happen and it just becomes too critical of an issue though to let people whoops we have to reschedule we
35:25
have to reschedule what teeth do we have to put in place that they can’t just reschedule well I mean we could
35:31
terminate the existing agreement um even though it’s supposedly in perpetuity we can take it to court and
35:38
have it thrown out if we wanted to really use that as teeth you know cancel
35:43
the agreement or do we increase cost to use the facilities to the point where they have to come to the table oh
35:49
that’s possibility as well we should make this a short-term objective absolutely
35:55
Jeff um this is a couple thoughts on the on the jetty one I love the idea uh
36:01
because it’s it would quickly become as as controversy but sufficient here
36:07
but it’s not an easy project in any phase of it so it would be
36:14
there’s some money there’d be a significant investment up front I think as a as a plan B I I think we should
36:21
keep that going but it’s a plan A we need to get this legislature to give
36:27
us the same treatment as the as important District that eliminates our
36:33
lease and that doesn’t take an investment on our part and in the even
36:39
in the worst case there’s no reason why they shouldn’t be selling us that lease
36:44
area B which is at the foot of the fishing pier in the public restroom is that parcel meets every requirement laid
36:51
out in the state law for transfer to uh transfer or sale and those those
36:57
remedies are I mean it takes people to take our time but we really need to put a full court press on them and and I I
37:04
and I’m sure other council members are willing to testify that legislation the challenge there is that the state is
37:10
scrambling for money and they’re expecting every Department basically maintain or bring in additional revenues
37:16
and so they’re going to be reticent to give up a hundred thousand dollars from us let alone Oak Harbor
37:21
but but that doesn’t mean that we’re not going to pursue it but realistically realistically if in anything the
37:28
legislature touches is typically a two to five year our timeline Horizon on things you know
37:35
it’s not going to happen overnight so there are other things that might be well we do have a stick and that’s the
37:42
genuine because we can go to the legislators hey we put in the jetty walk the lease goes
37:48
away yeah so either way yeah you know it’s just
37:53
what you know we have it’s more it’s more of a suspense for us and then we
37:59
have to keep it up but hey if you want to you want to play that card
38:21
um but before that I was on the parking issue um I think uh part of the difference
38:26
between our Marina and other marinas as far as parking is what they’re in proximity to like each Park residential
38:34
and our business community so it may be if we’re going to put pay parking in the
38:39
marina we’re going to have to put meters on the residential streets just above
38:45
the marina and then we’ll have to put meters in the downtown shopping area as well because they’ll move they’re pretty
38:53
close there I don’t know yeah I think there’s X number of people who are going to wind up parking in downtown and
38:59
walking down they do it now yeah but most but most people most people aren’t going to do that most people are you
39:05
know and and there’s been some strategies talked about where for the residents you could give them you know a
39:11
pass either for five dollars a year or even for free conceivably and yeah
39:18
and and then and then what you’re capturing are are the others 80 of the
39:24
people the 70 or whatever but but the the issue the issue about the paid
39:29
parking is well while I think that it’s the most likely outcome the the
39:34
thing I think Bob is the we didn’t we didn’t tee the issue
39:40
upright we didn’t talk about to the public that look you’re using it and
39:46
you’re not contributing to it they don’t they don’t understand that they think their taxes go to support the marina
39:51
instead of it being the marina tenants and and so there was this knee-jerk
39:57
reaction and I think we need to have that conversation so that and and give them an opportunity to suggest some
40:03
potential um uh options in terms of how they can
40:10
contribute to maintenance of the marina and if the least objectionable and I
40:16
suspect it will be is the paid parking then you still get to where I think it’s going to go but I don’t think people
40:22
felt like they have a chance to weigh in that they that they didn’t understand what the
40:29
issue is and and I think before we pursue that necessarily as a quote
40:35
unquote the solution I think we need to have the conversation with the public as part of these
40:40
for periodic meetings that we talked about earlier and ask you know educate them as to the
40:47
as to the needs in the marina the fact that they don’t contribute to it and what their suggestions are
40:54
because if at least they had an opportunity to have that to offer things up to weigh in then when
41:03
we come to whatever conclusion we come to then at least they’ll have felt that they were hurt and we didn’t do that and
41:11
and and and and and that’s the frustrating part is because the committee did Bust The Divide and I know
41:16
Joe and and Patrice really worked hard to look at those options the problem is
41:21
we didn’t bring the public along with us on it and and so now we’re having to go back and educate them about the needs
41:30
yeah just do it okay so I I think in the
41:35
end my prediction is that we’ll wind up coming to that conclusion because it’s
41:40
more attractive than raising property taxes or doing some other thing especially when 70 percent of the users
41:47
are from outside the area so I I uh I think that um
41:53
I I think we’re going to get there but I think we need to do the educational piece and we haven’t done that so I I I
42:00
foresee where that can become you know that there’s going to be some Revenue piece that related to that let’s make it
42:07
a call for this coming year it should be on the short term list I think that’s our Revenue we need a revenue a goal
42:13
yeah I like to be more specific but I wouldn’t say part I wouldn’t say
42:18
parking without asking the public what they think I think we just have to put a bullet under what it says something
42:24
about addressing Marina revenues in both the short and long term to make
42:30
sure to support them be specific yep you okay with that yeah
42:37
I’m good with that Jeremy okay let’s do it
42:43
I’ve already gotten noted and I am called creative financially sustainable plan or financial sustainability plan
42:49
exactly
43:00
process
43:12
yeah we should we add that yeah
43:18
um I had to step away for a few moment to help a customer but there was a lot of Joe and I’ve had a lot of discussion
43:25
about the North Lot the parking lot and potential for the demise I would say of the bulkhead there
43:33
along the north parking lot and around in front of the beach park as well we’ve
43:38
got some really aging facilities that could
43:44
deteriorate and be gone anywhere and so and one of the things I don’t
43:52
want to Discount the opportunity the public opportunity for those facilities because if the parking lot’s gone public
43:59
access to those facilities is gone with access to the marina and so we will
44:05
be in a crisis situation when that happens they’re being almost on their mind right
44:10
now right but the the other thing is though uh being able to afford that four million dollar project
44:17
means taking a bunch of money out of operating expenses so whose department wants to get hacked in order to be able
44:23
to pay for the bonds on an ongoing basis to to to meet that obligation I just
44:29
wanted to mention though that there are matching grants that would be available for that so if we’re anticipating doing
44:35
that type of a project we can probably get 50 of the match from the state or another or through the federal voting
44:42
program because of public access to the beach public access to the water so it doesn’t
44:49
have to be necessarily a four million dollar um it doesn’t have to be free public access
44:57
yeah I just want to reinforce that because uh if you remember when we did
45:02
the first bulkhead project part of the reason we selected that section of
45:08
Bulkhead was was because of our future uh development plans we wanted to
45:14
isolate those Parcels but the other thing was that we determined that that
45:19
section of Bulkhead from the green a lot from the marina office to ldot was our most vulnerable piece of Ball Camp and
45:27
so they’re just doing the risk assessment the office is there every utility in the western hemisphere is in
45:32
there the boat yard is there so when you think about losing a chunk of Bulkhead that was the most
45:38
the most risk now I think we get down the line five or six years when you
45:44
think about the north lot at the time you know five years years ago we lost North bulkhead yeah we lost some asphalt
45:49
but now if we lose the north bulkhead because we’ve got this business built up in the beach park and we’ve got to
45:55
remove the farmers market to the north and that’s been incredibly successful so what we’re risking now is much more than
46:02
we were risking five years ago it’s like Bob said things change you know so so I
46:07
agree with the trees and then to the extent that we’ve changed it from uh now
46:12
that we don’t do the public or that we don’t have to launch there anymore we could really make a case that that’s
46:18
almost pure Public Access so that opens us up to a lot more cramping possibilities and if we go back we have
46:25
the King County uh safe boat there now so they’re a partner if we go back to try to hit poor security grants The ROC
46:34
rco is standing by to upgrade the fishing pier in that part of the bulkhead because they want to lock that
46:40
up again because it’s currently not like I mentioned so there are some possibilities there that we can Leverage
46:45
What
46:56
see the thing is we probably financially can sustain
47:04
two million dollars in bonds based on a committal of real estate excise taxes
47:10
and or general fund monies if we had to make such a commitment but you know three million or 4 million
47:18
is going to be a stretch and and we’re not going to know probably from two years
47:25
what the true cash flow to the city is from the businesses that come in in the
47:30
course of the next year so there’s no there’s no predictability on the how you pay the our share what
47:38
should have to be financed by bonds against whatever match we wind up with
47:44
so does it make does it make more sense though to do
47:51
the one that you know is going to bring in at least net it sounds like that
47:56
break even in terms of you know what def docs yeah
48:01
or the potential for more or does it make more sense to commit to
48:09
something that we’re going to wind up eventually having to do anyways it might get some money for but
48:15
it’s going to be a huge stretch to pay the debt service on if you do it
48:21
I mean either way it’s going to have to be the city that wins up floating the bonds and not the greatest specifically
48:26
itself or relative whatever improvements at least for the next go around or two and so that has implications for
48:33
everything in the city so I I don’t you know I
48:39
I see what you’re saying and I but I don’t know what the likelihood of getting the grants is either is and is it something that will take two or three
48:46
years before you wind up with it or correct I mean we’ll start planning now we’re looking at probably four years
48:52
before we could put it you know get all the pieces in place to get it done so we’re
48:58
checking you know five years from now but if we don’t start planning for it now I’m doing the analysis we don’t
49:03
forgive you still have to design it you’ve got it permit it because there’s certain Windows of time you can you
49:08
can’t do construction yeah what I’m thinking though is this
49:15
sustainability plan for the Marina has got to include exactly what we’re talking about here which is
49:21
replacing those parts of the marina that are at risk of failing tomorrow
49:26
definitely within the next five years and the north bulkhead is number one but I’ll tell you my my number one priority
49:33
is number one priority before we ever get to the capital side is going from red to Black on the operating site or
49:39
the rest of it means nothing and and so you know that’s I mean that’s I I agree
49:47
with you we’ve got short midterm and long-term you know here and we need to figure out what fits what category I
49:53
don’t mind going out and asking for Grants if I know that we’re essentially committing the city to floating bonds
50:01
three years from now or whatever in order to build that facility
50:07
but that means our having to make a commitment now in order to do it right and well not you don’t have to make a
50:14
commitment the second but we if we analyze it and see what the we can give you kind of the time frame so what when
50:20
you have to commit to what and how much and how and
50:30
when we do this plan is I think it also needs to be a remember it’s a financial plan so we have to analyze and go back
50:39
all the way to before we started talking about our Revenue options and how those might fit into a financial plan so for
50:46
operations and for Debt Service and paid parking I think is one of them reinforce
50:53
development is another one um we are still talking with the company
50:58
that we uh I started talking to they did a couple of big leaps just in the last
51:04
couple of days uh they’ve they’ve hired an attorney they’re actually starting to talk Matt believe it or not that is a
51:12
big deal it is a big deal but I’m laughing at it because we first started the conversation with them over a year
51:18
ago you know and we gave them we gave them anything seriously we gave them a
51:24
Fisher Cup made date up next to Thursday the 20th and if they don’t respond appropriately
51:32
we’re going to tell them that you know we’re happy to talk to you but we’re going to go look further out
51:40
I understand but I I also think that we need to you know if if we’ve got a
51:45
bulkhead that can fail and undermine that north parking lot we’re gonna have to think about what kind of development
51:51
opportunity we’ve already talked about parking and everything else but I you know got not just the paid parking but
51:57
having to come up with a some kind of a municipal parking or something down there because if you start putting
52:03
buildings in where you’ve had parking spaces you have more of an issue I’m just having to wonder if we
52:09
shouldn’t be in the light of some of these conversations saying well you know
52:14
I I’ve looked at this whole comprehensive thing to at one point seeing a picture with a hotel and a tennis court on top of it
52:20
um I’m thinking you know we’ve we’ve got dry storage that doesn’t seem to
52:26
generate a ton of Revenue and use for the marina still for us
52:34
if that were replaced with a permanent structure that could house year-round business would that be a
52:41
better opportunity for you I don’t know the answer to that well I think an opportunity is to incorporate our
52:47
driveshare business and in a parking structure so because that’s that’s going to be the
52:55
precursor to everything we do down there some kind of a parking structure and we talked about that how some if we build
53:01
it correctly we could we could keep our dry shed business and have a deck over
53:07
it for parking uh possibly the possibility of maybe moving the marina office into that structure so we can
53:14
totally free up that other parcel for development and then as our dry shed business I I do expect it to fade away
53:20
because it will uh the salmon is going to fade away but as that Fades away we
53:25
could we could transition that into a winter storage business when we’ve got a one started now in our open lot there’s
53:32
then we would I think what Michael’s told us I know he’s probably talking about parking structure the big problem
53:38
with parking structures and for us is there’s no Revenue there in the winter you know so in the off season if we
53:44
could if there’s a revenue stream associated with it that we could keep there then it starts to make it more viable
53:50
and then when that when that when that development does come to that Prime
53:56
piece of product that parcel where we have the office we have parking already there but but we
54:04
can’t um we can’t just replace the parking that’s going to be taken out by the footprint
54:11
of Whatever Gets built we have to have more than we have now because it’s
54:16
obvious we don’t have adequate for what we have now but if you think again if you think down and you give ourselves
54:22
five or six years to get there let’s say the the dry shed business just continues to deteriorate and we replace that with
54:30
winter winter storage which like I said we’ve got that business going over the open lot now
54:36
then in the summertime when we need it we’ve got two layers of parking where
54:42
before we had a bunch of white sheds but we have other issues I mean if CSR is is doing as well as they’re
54:49
doing does it make sense to expand their footprint you know by a third or a half
54:56
or something or 50 percent get ongoing lease money out of them that’s more
55:02
substantial than what you’re ever getting out of the dry steads and you’re bringing business they’ve got more capacity to handle more boats to repair
55:08
and maintain I suspect that they uh I would like a little more space but
55:15
what they really want is a new building yeah and and that’s going to mean reconfiguring that yard maybe adding
55:22
some more space to it but I I think they’re like every other business in the country right now they want to make keep
55:28
their expenses as low as possible and what they concentrate on is what kind of Technology can I buy what can I do how
55:36
can I train my people to just flip those boats faster you know that’s what they’re talking about is when they talk
55:42
to me they just want to get them in and get them out they don’t really want to pay me more rent so Joe left because let’s have a conversation with CSR let’s
55:49
sit down and say what what’s your plan for this location and how can we help
55:55
you the way this beneficial will go and that’s that now you guys are back to the point that I was trying to make earlier
56:00
where I think whatever conversation we had in the past about the development of the marina floor
56:07I mean if that business wants to expand was that built in there is that are we having the
56:14
right discussion I’m not sure today it looks the same as it did
56:19
okay so it it kind of I mean we all I think agree that this is a business that
56:25
needs to get um in the black um we I think agree that you know we’ve
56:32
got some things that are that are are impacting the marina or the marina
56:37
dollars and the fishing pier the boardwalk that you know the farmers market you know and if those are all
56:44
things we we brought on ourselves you know I mean those are things that we’ve said look at our peer come visit
56:52
and look at our Boardwalk come visit it when those things we brought on ourselves
56:57
and recently said come visit this because we want you here because we have something
57:04
and you know we’re batting around a lot of different ideas and I think sit down and you look at your strengths
57:10
of your Marines your weaknesses your opportunities you have maybe it’s through you know expanding CSR maybe
57:17
West Marine you know different things like that what are the opportunities what’s the industry trending to and what
57:24
are the threats let’s do a SWOT analysis of it and I think you’ll find your answers there I mean we could beat it
57:31
around this room all day long until we set down and really do that focus on
57:37
that and then what’s it going to take to support it because right now I mean you can put in
57:44
paid parking but if the North Lot drops off didn’t do any good you know so
57:51
that’s just I think that’s the conversation and maybe that’s a special work session where we sit down and just
57:58
take this one thing and dig into it and put together a plan and move forward
58:03
because we’re all saying a lot of the same stuff but we want to get there but how are we going to do it yeah and and I
58:12
think for my part you know run the business as a marina it’s also an asset for
58:19
to draw people here so you have to balance it but it has to be a viable business or
58:25
it’s throw out the rest of it out yeah
58:31
so what I’m hearing is you want the plan
58:37
wants that to improve include some kind of a logical order of Capital
58:43
Improvements and what the benefits would be you know the cost benefit analysis of
58:49
each of those options in terms of the order and all of that because I think
58:54
that because I think that we need to see you know if it makes sense to do something because it will actually bring in some
59:00
additional Revenue if we’re programming for the next three years uh for
59:06
permanent Mortgage in the guest mortgage area makes sense I mean I don’t know what the you know
59:12
that part of the discussion looks like um because if we if we kill off the guest
59:19
mortgage for three years what does it look like coming back after that or not sure you know it’s kind of what I think
59:26
councilman pink we’ve talked about that whole analysis yeah the strengths of our Arena are that
59:33
maybe a fishing pier but but that’s also a weakness yeah so you know and what
59:39
opportunities does that bring us and and then and then in terms of development you know
59:45
whatever shut up I’m sick and tired of hearing about Good Fit development right we need some specific to look at
59:52
otherwise then talk about it yeah as far as that purpose questions
59:58
no you’re not all right
1:00:04
okay this has been an interesting evening listening more than talking
1:00:11
um which is your the issue is right now I think one of our
1:00:17
primary issues is uh I’m gonna agree with dick on something
1:00:24
here I think that we should handle this as a council as a whole
1:00:29
and not in a committee and having to study these committees and come back with recommendation I would strongly
1:00:35
suggest that once you get all of your kind of marching papers and figure out what you need to do set up a timeline to
1:00:43
that and then we all come back here and take a look at it and weigh in on it as
1:00:48
a whole that is a committee whatever it might be okay with that of
1:00:53
course so what happened with your permission yes uh when I look at the Futures and I look at things that are
1:01:00
going to be coming down the pike in the first half of the Year quite frankly January right now doesn’t have an awful
1:01:05
lot in it I mean even if some of the zoning issues and development issues we’ve been hearing or anything coming
1:01:11
walking in the door we’re not going to get to those until probably late January anyway so we probably put us weeding
1:01:18
staff which I had enough time to but well that’s going to say we will spend the next six weeks putting together a
1:01:24
lot of this data a lot of these options a lot of this analysis and then let’s start having a conversation early
1:01:30
January I would be very much in favor of that and again as a whole and you work better with the deadline yeah
1:01:42
in terms of the things that we stated there’s a there’s I think there’s some
1:01:47
Global issues that we need to have some conversations on during some study sessions next year uh aside from the
1:01:54
marina I would like to have one on uh you know you gotta go Global here hi
1:02:02
Aunt Bob
1:02:11
I think you know how many of you heard uh have heard complaints or criticisms
1:02:18
about internet access cable and everything else yeah I think we need to get representatives from the different
1:02:24
providers here and I think we need a conversation about that service here in the city I’m sick and tired of hearing
1:02:31
about it I think there needs to be some sort of accountability piece in there and I think we need to investigate
1:02:36
options in terms of Alternatives
1:02:41
and whether and whether that’s whether that’s Google whether that’s
1:02:48
establishing our own utility in that regard I think that’s a
1:02:54
that’s a study session conversation that needs to happen um
1:03:01
[Music] all these things together and one of the
1:03:09
things I would ask like us to really address is uh his midterm point but I think it should be more near-term has
1:03:15
changed the way to transfer the general fund is then Marina revenues are variable it’s the decision let me ask
1:03:21
the transfer should be based on current actual dollars in the bank not on Project revenues for the next year so
1:03:26
we’re changing the way we actually fund if we’re going to continue to fund the operating from instead just throwing a
1:03:33
number at it looking at what they actually and we started that conversation at the
1:03:38
last council meeting a little bit in terms of what we what the marina pays
1:03:43
the city for services September from 225 and 250 000. are those based in how do
1:03:52
we track that do we track hours
1:03:58
I’m sorry it’s an indirect model that we have that is based on the activity-based
1:04:04
functions based on budget support and then Marina and also the swim utility
1:04:10
are allocated in an indirect cost that’s how we come up with that number but they
1:04:16
could be I believe there’s duplication in there they’re paying for services as well we’re still giving them an
1:04:22
allocation of a certain Department’s expenditures so that never could go down
1:04:29
so okay [Music] um the the other topic
1:04:35
um oh and then and then getting all of the education Critters rounded up and heard it into a
1:04:43
pen so that we could actually have conversations
1:04:48
education to meal anyhow
1:04:57
[Music] 1:05:03
so so are there are there other study session topics
1:05:09
that from just a long-term Global strategic you know
1:05:16
that’s a very good term again so I actually wrote down four three you
1:05:23
came you throughout the internet cable access issues and options which we’ve been talking about the last
1:05:29
hour educational communities no internet communications um we talked about as a as one of our
1:05:36
short-term goals that we’re going to create this plan well I think we really should
1:05:41
have a Council level discussion about the the detail elements and what that
1:05:47
plan looks like what it’s going to cost um Communications uh via our internet
1:05:53
sites our web our social media use Community forums neighborhood meetings
1:06:02
um our newsletter City currents and let’s talk about all those things and how we
1:06:07
want to do a better job of reaching out to people and just making yourself sustain accessible that people can find
1:06:13
out what’s going on in the city with a click of a button or whatever can we add the new um concept to that of the
1:06:20
technology updates because people reach us like through registrations and I mean it’s not just
1:06:27
sending out Communications it has to do with how can they interact with us to use our services medications and
1:06:34
services Service delivery um it’s not quite important I I think
1:06:40
technology communication is an interaction or Community interactions user interact
1:06:49
yeah Pat well of course we should add to that and how to track it for public records purposes is that something we
1:06:57
sort of had an idea that we should be doing about underwear
1:07:07
Bonnie and I talked about that and Dale is supposed to be using some software this tracking all the official tweaks
1:07:13
let me see um what I’d like to see in Dan and Michael can you talk about this better but a five-year uh five-year
1:07:19
project with regards to construction uh you know we’ve got that band of Revenue that we’ve pretty predictable and then
1:07:25
we’ve got the one-time how far out are we on some of these projects and how realistic or something yeah Michael and
1:07:31
Dan have talked about putting together a big detailed list of all potential possible projects so someone walks in
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the door and says gee I think they’re doing accident my property and goes on the list from the search racket okay I I
1:07:43
get that but I’m I’m talking about study sessions for next year so
1:07:49
so those are the facts presumably some kind of financial plan okay so so
1:07:55
internet telecommunications cable the marina education communities and Communications
1:08:02
slash user interactions okay is there any other issue that somebody else
1:08:08
thinks that just from a Global Perspective or a broad perspective in your conversation
1:08:27
[Music] 1:08:34
let’s let them arm wrestle over here
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with the uh legal and important thing yeah
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what’s legal and judicials
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it’s a good idea boy
1:08:59
anything else and Joe did you get enough from us to chew on in that direction
1:09:05
what I heard was we of the different opinions on about what our purpose is what we’ll try to do is
1:09:11
in our our plan we’ll try to create a preamble and we’ll take a cut at that
1:09:16
so that the council and look at it there were Marina first they think that was the conclusion
1:09:23
the emphasis first right the absolute focus is the Marine business first
1:09:29
and then after that we’re talking about some
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uh this is a public place that the public both in Des Moines and
1:09:42
not living in Des Moines have come to expect it is there for them but you’re
1:09:47
willing to have a conversation as to what the terms of that interaction is right now it’s completely free
1:09:54
and it may stay that way after we’re done with our conversation but we need to talk about the costs of having that
1:10:02
kind of access and an opportunity for the public no matter where they’re coming from but first and foremost this is a
1:10:09
operating Arena and we need to get into the operation of black we need to have a plan to talk about how we replace those
1:10:16
parts of it that need to be replaced in the next three five and ten years and and the bottom line question is does it
1:10:21
make Scott’s life easier or harder because if it’s harder than I’m all for it [Music] 1:10:36
okay [Music] okay anything else is this where we’re
1:10:41
saying Kumbaya well go ahead Bob
1:10:47
well thank you everybody we got done earlier today that I thought we were going to get done and we we actually
1:10:53
narrowed down the laundry list because I think I think this next year having